H-1B Visa Delivers Hate, but Not Applications

IT Management | Blog Post | Wayne Rash, Wednesday, July 28, 2010
h-1b visas, workforce

On Monday, July 26, a column I wrote on eWEEK about the diminishing number of applications for H-1B visas appeared, and was immediately followed by a string of comments that expressed a shocking level of racism, hate, bigotry and pure mean-spiritedness. I had everything from threats of violence against foreign workers using H-1B visas to insults. The experience was so unpleasant, and the comments in some cases so libelous, that I asked the editors to pull the entire comments section, and to disable the ability to leave comments.

My point was that the number of applicants has declined steadily over the years, partly due to the lousy job market in the U.S., and partly due to bureaucratic bungling. It’s clearly a waste of federal money when one part of the Executive Branch – the Department of State – approves a visitor, and another part of the same branch, the Department of Homeland Security, refuses to let the people leave the airport, and sends them home. Regardless of the rationale, it makes the government appear as if it’s being run by idiots.

Another reason that the numbers are declining is that the process is difficult, which is probably not a bad thing. An applicant has to prove that they have a job, that it’s at a level considered eligible for the program, and that the pay is at a level so that people with H-1B visas aren’t simply a source of cheap labor. This may take evidence provided by the prospective employer and a series of interviews at a U.S. Consulate in the person’s home country. The process may be difficult and sometimes expensive, but one way or the other, there needs to be a process.

But after seeing the response to people wishing to enter on such temporary visas, I now know there is another reason. Why would anyone want to enter the U.S., knowing that they would be subjected to a nearly constant stream of racism, hate and threats?

I’m sure there are many who don’t see this as a problem. After all, if we keep these people out of the U.S., aren’t we preserving American jobs? But in reality, the point of the H-1B visa is to invite the best workers from other places to work in American companies and contribute their talents, their skills and their time to make our companies better. The companies that proactively hire such people, many of which are in the technology sector, benefit from having these people on hand, and if they benefit, so does the rest of the economy.

But in the case of tech companies, at least the ones that I interact with, foreign workers are not here as cheap labor. They’re here to bring their talents and their viewpoints to U.S .companies. In many cases, these same people go home after a time to work in the local offices of these same companies. In effect, we’re growing the economic benefit of these people two ways. First, by gaining their skills, and second by making use of the training they received here when they go back home, and contribute to the bottom line of the company through their local offices in the person’s home country.

But It would seem that it’s become acceptable to some people to openly espouse racism as long as it’s directed at someone who’s not from here. You have to wonder what they’re thinking, but are afraid to say. Do they also direct that same hate at everyone else who doesn’t look like them?

The technology industry and IT needs anyone it can find who can make things work better, regardless of where they’re from or what they look like. One would hope that the IT business was made up of people smart enough to have moved on. But unfortunately, some in this business are just as bigoted as everybody else. And that’s bad for IT, for business and for the rest of us.

Comments (91) Bookmark and Share

Comments

Title 8, Section 1182
Sat, 2010-08-14 23:11 — Anonymous (not verified)
Read Title 8, Section 1182 of Federal Code. It's called INADMISSIBLE ALIENS. That laws says that ANY foreign worker (even 'legal' ones) that adversely affect the wages or working conditions of American workers is INADMISSIBLE. INADMISSIBLE. That means they are NOT TO BE ADMITTED TO THE U.S. PERIOD. So if Americans are haters, then so is the law. We need our immigration laws enforced. Every single one of these H-1B workers is an INADMISSIBLE ALIEN under U.S. Federal law as long as one American worker is unemployed. Demand enforcement of the law.
H-1Bs
Sat, 2010-08-14 23:08 — Anonymous (not verified)
I have lived and worked in Silicon Valley for over 16 years. I see what goes on daily. We're flying these people in, mostly from India, a 3rd world country, where many people have never even seen a light switch, and we're plopping them down in chairs in U.S. jobs formerly occupied by brilliant Americans, and we're training them. Some have never used a computer before. And we're doing this on the scale of about a million people per years. And we've been doing this for 12 years. Now what do you suppose will happen to an economy that replaces 1 million of its most brilliant job creators every year with people who have never seen a keyboard before? Economic collapse, that's what. Which is exactly what we are seeing. If Americans "hate" these people, it's only because many of them come here, get trained, get into positions of management, and then only hire other Indians. It's illegal, it's racist, and it's just plain wrong. America is supposed to be the land of opporunity for everyone. But those we are brining in today have more rights and opportunity than the citizens that were born here. Until we wake up to the reality of the nature of the people we are brining in that hate us, nothing in the U.S. economy is ever going to improve.
Where do I begin?
Fri, 2010-08-13 15:12 — John80224 (not verified)
Many of the comments you reference were indeed out of hand. But the mudslinging was coming from both sides of the Pacific. Just a point of order as I agree, it was still uncalled for but is what it is. Now onto some specific flaws of this article and the visa program in general... “But in the case of tech companies, at least the ones that I interact with, foreign workers are not here as cheap labor.” I assume by this statement that you do not work with one of the many IT outsourcing companies that crowd the list of top H1-B sponsors. “But in reality, the point of the H1-B visa is to invite the best workers from other places to work in American companies and contribute their talents, their skills and their time to make our companies better. The companies that proactively hire such people, many of which are in the technology sector, benefit from having these people on hand, and if they benefit, so does the rest of the economy.” Two things on this one: First off, I believe you left off the qualifier that the point is to bring the best and brightest WHERE THERE IS A SHORTAGE. The largest (ab)users of the H1-B are in the software industry—one with large numbers of capable Americans currently unemployed and constantly getting “right-sized”. Years of watching this industry lie to us and congress about their motivation has shortened some fuses. Second, the point of the visa that you do state is vastly ignored across IT. What we get MIGHT be the best and brightest, but is often no better or even worse than workers already here. Related, there is a great deal of focus on pointing out that Americans are not getting STEM degrees. While there may well be a decline—largely driven by the race for foreign labor—doesn’t this also refute the “best and brightest” argument? Presumably, those in the US still brave or stubborn enough to go into STEM are the most passionate about it. Implying the “few” we produce are the best of the entire pool that could be at least “good enough”. Meanwhile, other countries are churning out what, 3, 5, 7, maybe even 10 times as many such degrees PER CAPITA. And this from populations that have notably smaller percentages who have the means to access such training. To claim that these are better and brighter then is to claim that for every single capable American there must be 50-100 Indians or Chinese of similar or exceeding capability. One more tangent before the next point: the number of degrees in IT-related fields is at best a vague indicator as to the actual talent, productivity and entrepreneurialism these candidates possess. As to the benefit to these companies, the benefit is very often not improved quality of labor, it is instead lower cost--which is often itself gained by tossing aside labor laws and in the end less lucrative than initially indicated. As to the benefit of one company raising the rest, pardon my cynicism, but that is at best a side effect. Madoff, Goldman-Sachs, Enron, WorldCom anyone? “One would hope that the IT business was made up of people smart enough to have moved on.” It absolutely is. If you drop me in a desert, I’m smart enough to drink water but that doesn’t mean that I have access to water. I was laid off last year by a company who brought in a former H1-B as a new VP with the clear intent to decimate his existing staff and outsource more work to one of the major H1-B sponsoring outsourcing companies. The greatest display of hubris though was in his subsequent disregard for labor laws in then hiring largely Indian replacements for the positions he eliminated. Not every Indian is nepotistic, but there are too many stories out there to ignore that fact. I have since found employment at a 30% compensation decrease and a 4-8 year setback in my career. While not excusable, it's not hard to see why this topic elicits such visceral response. We've been lied to for two decades, slandered as incompetent and entitlement-minded and watched our opportunities diminish in both quantity and quality. We've experienced and shared countless examples that refute claims of our inadequacies / our competitors' superiority. Decisions that deeply impact us are made by those who are simply unqualified to understand all the ramifications or too lazy to consider the whole picture (Worker A costs 40% of Worker B--nevermind quality, language and cultural barriers, coordination effort, time differences, etc.) And in the midst of it all, when we get fired up, we read dozens of statements from entitlement-minded foreigners bemoaning the fact that the US tries to place any control on its sovereignty.
A Defense Against Tyranny
Thu, 2010-08-05 03:34 — Tunnel Rat (not verified)
Why I [blog about the Slumdog Invasion]: to defend the freedom of speech, which is our only line of defense against tyranny. If any group is placed beyond criticism or beyond being offended, that group has become a privileged class that can exert its will over other groups, and they'll have no recourse -- because to speak out against the privileged group would be "hate speech." Were some of the [posts] I ran offensive to [Hindus, slumdogs, Indians/Pick One]? Maybe. I don't care. Why not? Because I'm a "[Xenophobe]." Puh-leeze. I ran them because we live in a pluralistic society. I ran them because [Hindus, slumdogs, Indians/Pick One] have to learn to put up with being offended in the West just like everyone else; the only alternative is that it becomes against the law to offend them, and they become a special class with special rights, which is just what [Hindu-fascism] demands. On the contrary, in a free society, we don't all think the same way, we don't all believe the same things. So we have two choices: we can all fight each other until one group establishes dominance, or we can learn to put up with people who don't think like we do exercising their freedom speech in ways we might find offensive. People say and do things offensive to Jews all the time. And to Christians, too. Andres Serrano put a crucifix in a jar of urine and called it art, and the mainstream media couldn't remind Christians about free speech and the dangers of censorship fast enough. But offend [Hindus, slumdogs, Indians/Pick One] and you get threatened with death, or [harassed by the FBI] -- and this is all part of a larger effort: [NASSCOM, USINPAC, TiE/pick one] has been working for years now … to make offending [Hindus, slumdogs, Indians/Pick One] illegal worldwide. If they succeed -- and [you] don't get a clue -- you can the idea of equal rights for all out the window: [Hindus, slumdogs, Indians/Pick One] will be set up as a protected class, beyond criticism. And that's just what the [Slumdogs] want."
H1B doesn't translate into getting the best and the brightest.
Wed, 2010-08-04 22:06 — Anonymous (not verified)
I'd like to address one of the key points of your article, "the point of the H-1B visa is to invite the best workers from other places to work in American companies". I believe that legal immigration into the US is a strength of this country. There is no doubt that many immigrants have contributed ideas and added towards job creation. It's a myth however to think that the majority of those coming into this country with an H1B are the "best and the brightest". Anyone with a bachelors or masters degree automatically qualifies and most of the universities in India and Mexico (the 2 countries with the highest percentage of H1B grants) are inferior to US schools. I'm working with tons of people with H1Bs and haven't found them to represent the best and the brightest. There are a few gems in the mix, but I've also worked with a few that are complete "whack jobs" (one threatened the life of a company CEO and is working for Broadcom now). My point is that the H1B program performs no testing or selection to determine who are the best minds from a given country. On the contrary, the L1 Visa program seems to be the best at attracting top talent that has the potential to grow jobs in the US. Corporate America loves the idea of hiring masses of people and letting the cream settle to the top but this is very harmful to American society. A better approach would be to select and bring in just the creme.
Wayne your previous article was misleading
Wed, 2010-08-04 21:44 — Anonymous (not verified)
The problem that I had with your previous article was that your premise of, "H-1B Visa Usage Declines Sharply Due to Economy, Bureaucracy". Is actually incorrect. The number of applications and the rate that H1B slots are being filled have nothing to do with the total number of H1B Visas being granted -If- all of the H1B slots for a given year eventually end up being consumed. I have no doubt that this will be the case this year as it has been the case for the previous few years even when the economy was reeling. If you are reporting on the number of applications or the rate that H1B slots are being used, then that should be the central premise of your article.
I agree
Thu, 2010-08-05 04:40 — Anonymous (not verified)
A friend of mine told me at lunch that he just read an article that said that H-1B Visas were on the decline. I knew that wasn't the case so I asked him what his source was and he e-mailed me the link to Wayne's earlier article. After I read the article I saw that in fact it was only the total # of applications that were down and slots were just not filling as fast. This is definitely misleading. It doesn't matter if it takes 1 day to fill all 60,000 H1B Visa slots or 350 days. All that matters in the end is the total # of Visas that are granted and this year will be no less than previous years. The title of the article should be changed to reflect the facts.
The H1B Visa - Fighting The Enemy Within.
Wed, 2010-08-04 21:32 — Anonymous (not verified)
As an experienced engineer with 20+ years working in this field, one who also has executive level management experience, I'd like to offer my $.02 on this subject. I've watched the drastic changes taking place in this field with growing apprehension. These forces have accelerated in recent years to the point where my feelings of apprehension have given way to utter dismay if not outright horror.. These changes are driven by corporate greed and fueled by the twin forces of outsourcing and H1B immigration. Gone are the days of working with fellow Americans in the engineering field as everyone I know and who I once worked with has headed for the exits. Initially I liked the fact that engineering in the US was a cosmopolitan field where I had an opportunity to work with people from all over the world. This cosmopolitan environment has given way to an "Indianization" of the field where anyone who is not Indian is the rarity. This is not a rant about Indians themselves as I count Indians as many of my friends and I think the country has a rich heritage. Rather it's a rant about the wholesale transformation of the tech industry by greedy Corporate America intent on driving down salaries as a way to increase their overflowing coffers. It used to be the case that tech jobs in the US provided an opportunity for the best and the brightest in the US to go to college and enjoy a good standard of living. This was the way that most people that I know were able to better themselves and do something besides take on a blue collar manufacturing job. In fact, government figures show that 50% of job growth in the US after WW2 can be attributed to high technology jobs. With the twin forces of outsourcing and H1B Visas grants, those jobs are both dwindling and becoming less desirable. IBM for example has reduced it's workforce by 30,000 engineers in the past few years while simultaneously pressing the government to increase or remove the H1B cap. 60+ hour work weeks has become the new normal, with 80+ hour work weeks needed during crunch times. The caveat being that every minute has become crunch time. I recently spoke to one senior staff engineer at a top tech company who complained that he had worked 7 days a week for the past 6 months without a single day off! This same tech company has increased it's cash position to over $10B while also throwing lavish rewards at it's top executives. As the demographics in the field have changed and become completely dominated by Indians, there is also a worry of reverse discrimination as hiring managers are almost all Indians. I myself have run into this when I interviewed for a top technical job at a major fortune 500 tech company. A person (Indian) who would have been at peer level told me that I had too much experience and was "too senior" and he refused to interview me. Initially I assumed that this person must have worked his way up the company ladder and so was reluctant to hire outsiders and then I found out that the had been hired only a few years earlier at the same technical level that I was interviewing for. This person was not just a hypocrite, but I feel strongly that I would have been perceived as less of a threat (and would have been interviewed) had my resume not been as strong and had I been "one of the boys (ie Indian)". This destruction of what was once some of the best jobs in America has come at a time when manufacturing jobs have also disappeared. This leads one to ask, what are Americans supposed to do for a career? As a concerned parent, what career advice do I give to my child? Everyone who works in this field that I know of has been telling their children to avoid the engineering field and get into other fields such as Healthcare. The problem is that there aren't enough Healthcare jobs to make up for the loss of engineering and manufacturing jobs. The net result has also been to make the tech industry even more dependent on foreign labor while Americans lose out on what was once some of the best jobs in America. As someone who has managed teams of engineers in both the US and India, I also think it's a joke to suggest that engineers in the US are somehow inferior. I've found American engineers to be outstanding and to outperform their overseas counterparts in terms of productivity and quality of work, but they are expensive given that the cost of living in the US is many times more expensive than low cost areas such as India and China. To an average Corporate MBA type, it all comes down to cost per head and what is lost is the fact that a smaller team in the US can do the job of a much larger team overseas. Also missing in this equation is risk management and the cost of failed projects. Corporate profits and cash levels for tech companies have been increasing and this hasn't translated into any benefits for Americans except for Executives. This has also harmed the tax base of both local and federal governments. The net result is the destruction of the US middle-class with the counterpoint that anyone who collects a paycheck from a company is really middle-class. Name a single country on earth other than the US that treats their citizens this way? Every other country is scrambling for ways to provide high paying tech jobs for their country and to keep IP and technology advantages at home. The US on the other hand has embarked on a wholesale orgy of outsourcing technology while simultaneously importing cheap foreign labor. These short-term, greedy, policies will have long-term deleterious effects to this country that are very analogous to the sub-prime housing fiasco that we just went through. It's time that Americans realize that what is good for corporate profits is not necessarily good for America. Government should be for the people and by the people and do what is best for it's citizens as a whole. This means fighting the enemy within - Corporate America.
I partly agree and partly
Fri, 2010-08-06 18:51 — Ennis (not verified)
I partly agree and partly disagree with your observation. Yes, Indians are taking up a majority of tech jobs. But within tech jobs, a distinction needs to be made - IT tech and other tech. What I mean is -IT tech comprises mostly of software programmers and developers. The remaining is hardcore engineering - mechanical, chemical, electronics, industrial, telecommunications etc. In the software field, there are plenty of American workers who are well qualified. But I must say that in the rest of the engineering fields, it is very hard to find a qualified American worker. Go to any of the top grad schools and you will find that Asians (Chinese and Indians) constitute nearly 70% of the class in engineering disciplines. Most Americans appear to prefer management studies. I work in the telecom field and nearly every telecom company from handset manufacturer to service provider are dependent on Asian (Chinese and Indian) engineers for their work - only because there aren't enough American engineers in this field. It is not as if these engineers come cheap. They are an industry wide standard pay-package that they are given subject to scrutiny by the labor department. What worries me is 2 two things: One, not enough American kids are enrolling in engineering disciplines. Two, with many companies not able to offer "green cards", these Asian engineers return to their home countries with considerable knowledge of high-end technology which help companies in their countries compete more effectively with those in America. So, more American kids need to be persuaded to take up engineering so that there is self sufficiency. If not, the existing workforce must be retained to maintain America's lead in the world. As far as the flooding of unqualified software/IT-techs the US with H1B's are concerned, better evaluation mechanisms's need to be put in place. For starters, the minimum requirement must be raised to at least a masters degree from a recognized institution. Anyway, this discussion apart, I think H1B's are barely a headache when it comes to immigration. Their total number is only $85,000 annually and a good chunk of them return upon expiry of their visas. Less than 50% of this number goes on to stay and acquire US citizenship. It is the unchecked illegal immigration that concerns me more. Sometimes, I feel like the Govt, unable to tackle illegal immigration just makes a fuss about legal immigration to fool the general public into thinking that it is safeguarding our country - when in fact, it may be doing the opposite.
Legacy Wadhwa video -- no to H-1B
Wed, 2010-08-04 03:37 — weaver (not verified)
Video: Viveck Wadhwa, explains globalization and compares educational programs of China, India and America, "...the bottom line is that there is nothing wrong with American workers, they were better by far, not by a little, but by a lot..." http://www.youtube.com/wa... Click on "weaver" if link is truncated,
The H-1B causes the greencard backlog for non resident postgrads
Wed, 2010-08-04 04:07 — weaver (not verified)
We see in the press, percentages of foreign students in S&E postgraduate degree programs. However, the actual numbers of graduates shows that the existing caps are adequate to handle all of the S&E graduates -- many don't want to stay. The H-1B and L-1 allows too many undergraduates, mostly into Computer related occupations. ============================================================================= From the 2006 NSF data, Non resident degrees: Masters Science & Engineering = 30,841 http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf10300/tables/tab7​.xls ============================================================================= Doctorate Science & Engineering = 11,522 http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/nsf10300/tables/tab1​0.xls
Let's get real here
Wed, 2010-08-04 00:00 — Alex (not verified)
The H-1B program has nothing to do with attracting the "best and brightest", and everything to do with driving down wages. The problem is, we have a nasty recession going on right now. This should be glaringly obvious. The real question should be, "Why does the H-1B program still exist?"
H-1Bs are incompetents
Tue, 2010-08-03 15:28 — POed Lib (not verified)
I have been an IT person since 1983, but not a formal one - I do things which involve IT. As such, I have hired H-1Bs and Americans. I will never under any circumstances hire another H-1B. They are not here because they are the "best and the brightest". Most of the ones I hired (all Chinese, all women) are here to have 2+ kids. They have no initiative. They are unable to make a creative addition. They are in-the-box thinkers. Americans take the ball and run, innovate, and make creative additions.
How do we know your characterization is honest?
Tue, 2010-08-03 13:20 — TaxiDriver (not verified)
You have characterized the comments as "a shocking level of racism, hate, bigotry and pure mean-spiritedness" but yet you had them deleted. Vivek Wadhwa characterized an Amendment by Sen. Charles Grassley restricting H-1b hiring for TARP recipients using almost exactly the same words. So, how do we know you're not mischaracterizing the comments exactly the same way? I have read a lot of articles on this subject, and I read the comments. I have NEVER seen threats of violence on the part of American commenters and I find it hard to believe that they suddenly appeared here. ON the other hand, I have seen MANY threats of violence made by aliens toward anti-globalist sentiments. It's mighty convenient that your characterization comes when and only when the actual comments are no longer available to speak for themselves. With one hand, you pen your characterization, and with the other, you remove the reader's ability to judge for himself. I find that kind of tactic used frequently among globalist shills. I, for one, seriously doubt that there were threats of violence. I also doubt that the comments were actually racist or xenophobic. On the other hand, I have no doubt that a globalist would characterize them that way, just as Wadhwa did with the Grassley Amendment. I say put up or shut up. TD
More problems in the H-1b program
Tue, 2010-08-03 12:38 — EngiNERD (not verified)
Check out this breaking news......... Asian paper banned from using guest worker program http://www.mercurynews.co... The company has agreed to pay 22 workers about $473,000 in back wages, plus a $40,000 civil penalty. Seems a month doesn't go by and yet another company is fined for abusing the H-1b program... Don't forget the INFAMOUS -- "How Not to Hire an American Worker" - Video
At the onset , I would like
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:49 — Saul Carpenter (not verified)
At the onset , I would like to paste some of the comments made in a racist anti H1b Website that has in effect , become also an Anti Indian website, and to drill down even more precisely an anti Hindu Website . Please take a look at these comments : "The Insurgency is having a profound impact. Even shills for the Indian Outsourcing Regime (IOR), like freelance writer Wayne Rash, are taking notice. He remarks that the slumdogs are now too scared to try to come to the USA, because they might get called names! Too bad, scabs." I am not interested in popularizing that site with links. The comments actually become a lot worse. There are 2 Factors here that finally boil down : - <> the sense of insecurity that's actually spread amongst Americans by people of the sort above , who lost their job to competition and now keep "grunting" <> The sum total effect that H1B's give to the management as a whole , delivered as value. Value in terms of newer perspective, newer skills, and lower costs. To appreciate the 2nd , you should not have the 1st - so most times they are mutually exclusive and the 1st group see H1b's as a "conflict of interest" to their current positions . However that is not so. It is a kind of Hype that is spread by people of the likes of Mike Ambrose ( who prides himself in writing some VB kind of 101 spam software) , John Miano etc. These were those people who like to keep their work "as much of a Holy Grail" so that they can for the rest of their lives, keep flying twin engine super luxury pvt Cessna Jets, drawing $160K Salaries. When the cost go up , profits get squeezed and management understands the need for "opening the clogged lines". If this were NOT to happen and protectionism was further reinforced by Management - the result WILL be clearly seen - what happened to GM and Ford will happen to the IT Industry in US. ( Yeah all those MI workers formed various unions to protect their interests. Management caved in . Net result ? what happened to their products ? just clunker by clunker without any innovation to the point where there is no life ) It has been able to survive from the point of total shutdown due to the fact that it could sustain itself with so much lower costs and increased productivity. On the other side of it , there was a time when these small time BPO India companies were taking it to the other end. Most of this kind of abuse came in from "strong community brotherhoods" within them.Again a protectionist attitude to insecurity about their performance. Such people got jobs only using "internal connections and recommendations". I am on H1b and I strongly feel that such arbitrary "connections and influence" have done harm to healthy competition and also in some ( though not to the extent it is exaggerated ) cases deprived Americans of their opportunities. I read another wonderful comment from some other H1B holder just like me - and I agree with him. I think the US Govt can conduct some "raw analytical , quantitative etc skills" assessment test similar to GRE and some "domain tests" in the skill area where the work will be . If such an evaluation will occur , the milk and water will separate and whatever little abuse takes place will go down drastically. That seems more sensible than foolishly driving back people who have jobs at the port of entry , because some brain dead "ice" officers self assume positions of "judges" and try and decide if they deserve the job or not.
American vs. Foreign
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:31 — Anonymous (not verified)
American workers spend their $ here. Foreign workers send it home where it is worth much more. There's absolutely no difference in the economic impact of that, right? That is why continuing to import foreign workers will only harm the economy more. We've been hearing imported workers are good for the U.S. economy and the economy keeps sliding lower and lower and lower with each passing year.
Why?
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:27 — Anonymous (not verified)
Why are prominent Indian businessmen like Azim Premji & Vineet Nayar allowed to run amok in America saying things like "America does not have the talent", or "American grads ae unemployable" but when Americans right try to expose the rampant racism India, Inc. is practicing on American IT workers, suddenly it's RACISM. No one cares anymore Rash. Americans could care less if we are called racists because Americans now know that the whole world is racist - and a lot more racist than Americans who are only asking not to be kept out of the workforce by the very people we are importing.
A decade
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:23 — Anonymous (not verified)
Obviously a decade of importing millions of foreign workers hasn't made technology "work better". It's been the biggest disaster in 70 years. Why should we continue to import people from 3rd world countries with miserable track records of innovation? Why aren't we importing millions of people from world-class engineering countries like Japan or Germany? Surely they can help us. Where is the Indian operating system? Name one tech product from an Indian company. Or one from China for that matter. I don't mean assembled there, I mean INVENTED there. The fact is, guest worker programs, like all globalization are just a new, insidious form of communism - giving things created by the productive to the non-producitve. That's why we're importing mostly people from the 3rd world. Apple CLOSED its R&D center in India in 2006 and Apple is BOOMING. Apple is the only tech company booming now precisely because it still hires mostly Americans. All the others have been destroyed or severely damaged.
History of USA Immigration
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:19 — Anonymous (not verified)
Every immigrationw wave to the U.S. since 1900 has led to recession or depression. The late 1998-2000 wave was the biggest in U.S. history - bigger than the one from 1906-1920. Historical facts do not lie. Here is the history of immigration and recession to America since 1900: 1906-1920 - Huge wave from Europe - Great Depression in 1929. 1965 - Ted Kennedy's Immigration Reform Act - Big recession 1973-1981 1990 - H-1B started - recession 1991-1993 Oct. 1998 - H-1B caps raised form 65,000 to 115,000 per year - collapse in 2001. Apri 2000 - H-1B caps raised from 115,000 per year to 195,000 per year - collapse in 2008. The fake "recovery" in the mid 2000's was no recovery - just cheap Fed credit making up for Americans losing their jobs. America was built by Americans. Every buildup leads to immigrant takers who come in when times are good, strip the economy, then leave when times are bad - as they are now. 84% of the current U.S. population was born here. Do you seriously expect us to believe that 84% of the natives live off the work of the other 16% immigrants? Come on, stop being either a liar or delusional. Immigration is a disaster for America. China and India don't have open borders. Did I mention they are booming? In China it is ILLEGAL to transfer currency out of the country. In India there are LAWS on the books making it illegal to hire Americans there. In Japan even if you are born there, if you come from a mixed marriage, you get deported when the country is in recession. How's that for racism? If America were racist, then H-1Bs wouldn't even exist. And we would have deported all the TEMPORARY ones who came in over a decade ago. You've heard the saying "What goes around, comes around". The India, Inc. Mafia has been shoving the Americans who built Silicon Valley out of IT jobs for well over a decade. Americans have had enough. What goes around, comes around, India, Inc.
Companies destroyed by H-1B labor
Tue, 2010-08-03 06:16 — Anonymous (not verified)
Here are the facts: Companies DESTROYED by H-1B labor: PeopleSoft, Sun Micro, Bell Labs (Arun Netravalli), Quark (Alukah Kamar, CEO fired), MIT Media Lab Asia (canceled due to cheating), Intel Whitefield processor project (cancelled, Indian staff canned due to fake resumes), ComAir reservation system, Boeing Dreamliner ILS and collision detection software (written by HCL), Lehman (Spectramind software bought by Wipro, ruined, trashed by Indian programmers), Dell, United, Delta call centers (closed in India because they don't even know how to use telephones, let alone computers), HSBC ATMs (software taken over by Indians, failed in 2006), AIG (signed outsourcing deal in 2007 in Europe with Accenture, collapsed in 2009), World Bank (Indian fraudsters BANNED for 3 years because they stole data). I could post the whole list here but I don't want to crash any servers.
If only the best and the brightest were coming
Tue, 2010-08-03 03:09 — Anonymous (not verified)
The reality is quite different. An industry has built up over the 20+ years this policy has been in place--money talks and now it is good business in more ways than one to bring in foreign workers. Everybody makes money in the process. And it's not the best who are coming. From students to indentured servants, the statistics are truly awful. Take the time to page through the H-1b only want ads in the following link. [ http://bit.ly/aCPZqs ] How can ads promote that American's need not apply? Really? In America? And please Mr. Rash start researching this topic instead of spouting unexamined points of view. American tech workers and their family are being nailed to the wall by a not so innocent policy which rejoices in global opportunity while America is being sold to the highest bidder.
Plenty of Reasons to Hate the SCABS
Tue, 2010-08-03 02:55 — Anonymous (not verified)
Here's just one: http://hothardware.com/Ne... "In this case, Tara Fitzgerald, 48 and a mother of a 14-year-old of Sacramento, CA apparently was having trouble finding the nude pictures she'd taken for her boyfriend on her PC. Not too familiar with PCs (and obviously not wanting to ask her daughter for help), she turned to Dell Tech Support for help. As we all know, a lot of technical support (and not just by Dell) has been outsourced. In this case, Fitzgerald was connected to Riyaz Shaikh, an employee of Dell's call service center in India. That's when it all began. After explaining the issue (in too much detail, it would appear), Fitzgerald gave Shaikh remote control of her PC. For him, it was easy to find the images. She said, "I trusted him. I trusted him because he was a Dell technician. I watched him take the pictures out of my e-mail. I watched him." Thereafter followed a sequence of events that showed her obvious naivete. Fitzgerald later received an anonymous (ahem) tip about a site called "bitchtara" that had 16 nude and semi-nude photos of her, along with sexual activity the site claimed she enjoyed. Managing to re-connect with Shaikh, Fitzgerald asked how the pictures came to be on that site. His answer: perhaps her boyfriend posted them. Ah, but Shaikh could help her get the site removed, but only from home, not during official work hours. He'd need a laptop to do that, he told her." Here's another: http://www.latimes.com/ne... "In India, Hitler's "Mein Kampf" is a runaway bestseller, successfully marketed to business students looking for a template for a highly organized and disciplined mind. The image of this "strong leader" from Europe and his Nazi regalia are regularly featured in marketing campaigns and restaurant decor in Asia." The rhetorical race war was started by your friends in the Indian Outsourcing Regime. This time its personal. Stop shilling, Mr. Rash. We all know what happens to collaborators.
Not every Dell tech is riyaz
Tue, 2010-08-03 19:02 — TaxPayingDriver (not verified)
Not every Dell tech is riyaz shake. It is very regretful if indeed this has occurred. But lets threadbare this - in and out- Dell Tech give support ONLY for issues concerning malfunctioning of the laptop. They DONT give support to help search pics that u lost on your PC and at the very best would tell you how to do it NOT - remote in your PC. Try being a Mrs 48 yr Robinson or Fitzgerald or whatever u want to be ...... and contact Dell ..same request..see what comes out. On the other hand - yes Instead of revoking visas for people like Narendra Modi the US govt must PUT PRESSURE on Indian govt AND NOT HIRE MOSLEMS ..for the fear that they wd be perverts or else , terrorists and have a selective visa policy . IMHO
Hey Tunnel Rat a.k.a "Rudy
Tue, 2010-08-03 18:37 — Anonymous (not verified)
Hey Tunnel Rat a.k.a "Rudy Torrent", how's the FBI treating you these days? I would hope they let you use KY Jelly at the very least, to make it as painless as possible ;-)
Does FBI ever use KY Gel ?
Wed, 2010-08-04 23:54 — Tunnel Rat (not verified)
Does FBI ever use KY Gel ? FBI did to me the FBI job ( Fully Banged Inside) , & that is why I walk very carefully these days. Carefully , very carefully. The Indians have after all managed to get inside the "Rat's Tunnel" and lubed me all the way with "Currycaine", so much so that, when I meet the only Doctor and the Indian one that can treat me ...when I see those Indians in Curry bars....I grasp and say to myself .."Oh those Indians... am I wearing any underwear today ? "
Keep laughing, Slumdogs
Thu, 2010-08-05 02:30 — Tunnel Rat (not verified)
The next workplace massacre will be at Infosys, WiPro, HCL, or one of the many other curry dens. And I have no problems with the FBI. After about the third bogus terrorist threat traced back to me, they got the hint that some slumdog was behind all of them. That is what will happen to every American if we allow you scabs to takeover. But we already know who you are, and who your collaborator sponsors are. THERE WILL BE RETRIBUTION.
You can report people like
Thu, 2010-08-12 05:44 — Fight Racis (not verified)
You can report people like "Tunnel Rat" a.k.a. "Rudy Torrent" who incite workplace massacres, instigate violence and post online death threats & hate speech by leaving an anonymous tip at - http://tips.fbi.gov. Let us all do our part to rid this world of evil hate-mongering bigots like "Rudy Torrent". This is America, the greatest country on earth and EVERYBODY is equal here, so NO ONE deserves to be discriminated against in any way, just because of their ethnicity. SO, STAND UP AND FIGHT RACISM AND BIGOTRY! DO NOT TAKE IT LYING DOWN!
Haa now you see who the 'best' and 'brightest' is
Mon, 2010-08-09 22:45 — Tunnel Rat (not verified)
Haa now that you have my reply.. you see who the 'best' and 'brightest' is ..? Need more proof ? Don’t worry about it too much , its just a way , of letting you folks know , how all too exited I am with the Indians behind me giving me the FBI ( FULLY BANGED BY THE INDIANS ) job.Mike- you gonna have to just wait in line. I guess I forgot my undies home after all .... - Mike and Rudy Torrent. P.S. Watch our special saffron flavor, "Mike and Rudy" , ice-cream next to "Ben and Jerry's". We are fighting this through our nose.
H!B, L1 Visas and Executive Bonuses...
Fri, 2010-07-30 03:15 — Anonymous (not verified)
Some ideas on how to revive the US economy: 1/Immediately, cancel the entire H1B and L1 visa programs 2/Deport the L1 visa holder, and Keep the H1Bs who: -- have more than 10 years experience -- + who graduated from a Master programs in a reputable American University -- + have a high GPA -- + are currently employed and put them on an accelerated 2 years green card program, since these people can potentially be classified as the best and brightest, which fits the initial intent of the program... 3/Deport all remaining H1Bs which would be more than 95% of the current H1B workers... 4/Immediately initiate a program of re-employment and when it applies retraining of unemployed US tech workers, where the government gives incentives to companies if they hire and retain a US tech worker for at least 4 years 5/Put limits on senior executive bonuses in all public companies and use the proceeds as company savings to offset the higher salaries for the US (non-slave) workers... . 6/Start a Math & science campaign to encourage beginning college freshmen to major in engineering,computer science, math,... 7/..., US economy revived..., Free workers are creative, productive, tax paying,... workers Executive yearly bonuses in public companies, are the major reason that those short sighted executives are so much in favor of the H1B and L1 visas..., with short term savings for their companies, i.e. big bonuses for them, and long term disastrous impact on the US economy... and their own companies..., impacts like discouraging US student from going into Engineering and science, and putting well educated, eager to work, and tax paying american engineers on long term unemployment...,
I second that!
Tue, 2010-08-03 03:23 — bwbray (not verified)
I second that!
The reason no one objects to the visa lottery
Thu, 2010-07-29 23:55 — Test Test (not verified)
is that it is the only visa law that treats everyone equally. No one group is affected more adversely by the law than the rest of the US population; as a result, there is noone in particular who feels like complaining. I think the 14th ammendment kindof suggested all laws should be that way.
Truth
Thu, 2010-07-29 23:00 — Truth (not verified)
The H1b is used to lower wages and outsource jobs. There are a million loop holes in the program designed to underpay and use the visa to outsource. The dirty secret of the H1b is that is mainly used by outsourcing companies. These false claims of racism are very offensive and slanderous.
Besides, they started it. The
Thu, 2010-07-29 23:52 — Anonymous (not verified)
Besides, they started it. The insult fest I mean. I was on the old HotJobs support board for job seekers and it started way back then. They would come onto our discussion threads and taunt us, insult us, and crow about how they got our jobs and how poor and miserable we were going to be. They would describe us in the most insulting terms (as if you could tell our weight and education level from a HotJobs posting). There were even online discussion forums set up specifically to discuss global labor arbitrage, and they were hollering at us there, too. At first we were confused and polite, and tried to explain our side of things, only to encounter a torrent of derision. They started it, and a lot of the vitriol comes from the memory of that phenomenon.
Indian_H1B, thanks for noting the thought provoking posts
Thu, 2010-07-29 20:14 — Donna Conroy, Director (not verified)
Indian_H1-b, there is a human tragedy occurring in plain site and it will take American citizens, elected officials, and some Indians to end this tragedy. An uprising among federal bureaucrats in the DOJ, DOL, USCIS, IRS, long castrated by Bush appointees, that is driving the decline in new corporate visas and H1-b transfers. It's these regulatory agencies that are responding to - and will end - this human tragedy. Don't ask what this country can do for you, ask what you can do for your countrymen stuck in guest houses that are little more than unemployed camps.
Your Claims of Racism are False
Thu, 2010-07-29 15:50 — Donna Conroy, Director (not verified)
Congratulations to the many posters who are defending our right to oppose these corporate visa programs that bypass American talent, displace Americans from their jobs and wharehouse unemployed Indian techs in guest houses. It is the law that is racist, denying Americans from competing for job openings in our own country. Wayne, no amount of charging we are racist will stop us, and our elected officials, from re-writing h1-b law to restore Equal Opportunity to the US workforce. EEO laws, passed in the sixties, gave the US workforce the freedom to compete for job openings we are qualified to do. We have an overabundance of highly skilled technical professionals and new tech grads whom we have paid dearly to educate. But companies can legally discriminate against this talent, even posting H-1b only want ads! The displacement of Americans from their jobs in favor of foreign citizens is a disgusting practice that has increased among American companies - and will be stopped with the passage of the Small Business bill currently in discussions on the Hill. Wayne, you and other IT journalists have committed serious errors of omission in your reporting, never documenting the segregated recruiting and hiring practices that deny our freedom to compete. Wayne, it is your shameful mythology that foreign citizens are more competent and deserve to be considered exclusively for US job openings that is the true racism here.
Yes, Donna Conroy is correct
Sun, 2010-08-08 01:33 — Paul D. Bain (not verified)
Donna Conroy wrote: ============================== Wayne, you and other IT journalists have committed serious errors of omission in your reporting, never documenting the segregated recruiting and hiring practices that deny our freedom to compete. Wayne, it is your shameful mythology that foreign citizens are more competent and deserve to be considered exclusively for US job openings that is the true racism here. ============================== Yes, Donna, you are correct. Indeed, you nailed it. Good job. -- Paul D. Bain paulbain@pobox.com
Donna, With all due respect,
Thu, 2010-07-29 16:27 — Indian_H1B (not verified)
Donna, With all due respect, the posts below are among the most intelligent and though-provoking ones I have seen as a response to the H-1B. Even given that, it's patent that people haven't flinched from stating their reservations about 'low-wage slaves from India'. Dave Chapman, who is running for Congress, termed 'Indian immigrants' wholly as a "half-priced half-wits". Don't tell me you haven't seen posts about curry-scents and bathroom slippers in myriad responses to the H-1B. I suspect that the number of such responders is only a handful but given they are admittedly unemployed, it explains why they are prolific.
I wouldn't waste my time
Tue, 2010-08-03 18:48 — Anonymous (not verified)
I wouldn't waste my time trying to reason with someone like Donna Conroy. She is very clearly a hypocritical racist, who always conveniently ignores racial slurs and hate speech, but whines when someone talks about the original intent of the H1-B program. Stop pretending to be objective Donna - you are obviously not!
Flinging the word 'racist' at
Tue, 2010-08-03 21:46 — Anonymous (not verified)
Flinging the word 'racist' at someone for daring to disagree with your agenda is pure childishness. But we are used to that from India, Inc. Tantrums, pouting, name calling, the whole bit.
Agenda did you say?? The
Wed, 2010-08-04 06:02 — Anonymous (not verified)
Agenda did you say?? The people using racial slurs like "slumdog", "dothead", "sand-n!gg3r" (Yes, they use that word too! - check out Dice.com discussion boards if you don't believe me) are the ones with an agenda - an agenda of fear mongering and inciting hate and violence against people that don't look like them. You know who these people are and where they blog. Are you telling me there is no racist agenda there? Give me a break.
More importantly, they
Wed, 2010-08-04 06:15 — Anonymous (not verified)
More importantly, they constantly threaten people of East Indian descent with murder, violence and death. These cowardly racists (you know who they are and where they blog) are nothing short of domestic terrorists.
You keep forgetting, the
Wed, 2010-08-04 13:46 — Anonymous (not verified)
You keep forgetting, the foreign workers started the insult war. It was back in 2001. We remember. It kept going and spilled over into mainstream publications. We couldn't post on Informationweek and Computerworld without you guys showing up to call us stupid, uneducated, fat, lazy, all sorts of things. And now that your wonderful effect on our economy and society has become manifest, you need to be sent packing.
While I myself may not favor
Thu, 2010-07-29 16:52 — Anonymous (not verified)
While I myself may not favor the cheap shots against these superfluous foreign workers, I at least understand the frustration that leads to them. I have not lost a job to them directly, but I know for a fact that in spite of staying employed over the last decade and making advances as to rank and responsibility, and continually upgrading my education and skill set, my pay never got anywhere close to what it would have without all this competition from foreign workers. Employers were always in the driver's seat, and could say 'take it or leave it' with little leverage for us to bargain. Did you know that H-1B have made it as far as federal contracting work? All assignments except those requiring the very highest level of clearance are open to them - the lower levels of clearance are attainable by foreigners. What is an American supposed to do for a living in America? Did you know that they are salivating over health care reform and electronic record keeping, because they know that the work will go to them and not to us? You have to read their press to find out what it going on in our job market. Isn't that sad? I found this out in 2000 when my profession was devastated by layoffs, yet the yearly cap for them was raised to nearly 200K - and left there for the next three years! Many of the folks now clamoring for green cards gained entry during this travesty.
H-1B Crowding out and displacement: Part 3
Thu, 2010-07-29 15:47 — weaver (not verified)
The H-1B and L-1 visas are specifically named and committed in GATS 3, WTO trade commitments. However, under GATS the terms of these visas are considerably different from the terms in U.S. law. First, under GATS there are no dual-intent citizenship provisions for H-1B, or L-1 visa, this is considered “poaching” and is detrimental to Least Developed Countries. Second, under GATS the H-1B is a three year visa, there is no GATS requirement or provision for extension of the H-1B. Third, under GATS the L-1 visa is allowed as single 2 year extension, under U.S. law the L-1A can be granted 2 two year extensions after the initial 3 year period. The AC21 provides additional single year extensions beyond the U.S. extensions for PERM dual-intent applicants; this is why H-1B continuing employment approvals consistently exceed initial employment approvals – effectively extending the temporary visa into the decade timeframe. These GATS agreements are a departure from traditional US Foreign Aid, considered a hand-up instead of a hand-out. It’s tragic how people write about the developing world’s brightest and best that we (the U.S.) can covet through supposedly humanitarian training exchange programs.
Wayne, in the interest of
Thu, 2010-07-29 15:37 — Anonymous (not verified)
Wayne, in the interest of full disclosure, who exactly is paying you for this propaganda? On your website, it mentions "content creation for major technology companies" so I take that to mean that you get your money from the very companies that are accused of abusing the H-1B visa. http://waynerash.com/ This explains why you love this cheap labor visa so much.
H-1B Crowding out and displacement: Part 2
Thu, 2010-07-29 15:03 — weaver (not verified)
Much of the IT industry is project work, either on a fixed duration of time, or constrained by project funding. I've found that six month employment agreements are the norm, with six month extensions. Separations during recession are compounded by the H-1B program -- gaps in employment history are extended as new H-1B are invested in and reserved in advance of economic recovery. In preparing for an economic recovery, employers apply for an H-1B, paying fees and expending other resources six months in advance (Apr. 1 to Oct. 1), the final decision comes down to hiring the seasoned professional with an employment gap, or hiring the H-1B that has aready cost the company time and resources. Finally, new college graduates have been added during the recession, it's hardly fair that H-1B are reserved in April and most graduations occur in June.
Racism?
Thu, 2010-07-29 15:00 — Anonymous (not verified)
I was a consultant at a place in the mid 1990s, worked endless 80 hour weeks, one week reaching 100 hours (all for 40 hours pay, of course) I was told by the client that they'd never seen harder workers, and got great reviews A few years later, I applied there a few times, and no response perdiod. Yet, my apartment was filling up with people who just came from India, and guessed where they all worked? And I'm a 'racist' for mentioning that? The author of this story refuses to see that the citizen tech worker has been on the receiving end of some of the worst racism for 10 plus years, thank to the lies of guys like him, lies he's still telling to this day He doesnt like being called out, so he swings the race card around
Dismantling the US STEM worker community
Thu, 2010-07-29 14:44 — twins.fan (not verified)
You accusations of racism is total bull! Hundreds of thousands if not millions of US STEM workers are being displaced by low cost economic refugees from third world countries, primarily India, every decade. That is a fact! People are upset. They are losing their jobs, their homes, their communities and finally their country. Call it racism all you want, but it is total anger! We can correct the injustices of this visa now, or just sweep the problem under the rug by calling the victims of this injustice slanderous names.
You are quite mistaken in
Thu, 2010-07-29 16:05 — Indian_H1B (not verified)
You are quite mistaken in your notion of "economic refugee". Indians in the US already represent the highest strata economically and educationally in the US. If I were to drop all this and go back home to India, I am confident of landing a job that would accord me as decent a lifestyle as I currently enjoy. I would even get to enjoy Diwali with my parents (something I haven't done in 15 years). What I would miss is the approach to life that I so admire here. That said, I haven't met anyone that has personally begrudged my stay in the US...over 10 years! If I meet enough people that make me feel like an economic refugee, I would definitely consider moving on. Given the fact that I've gone a decade in the US without ever feeling unwanted (these posts don't count), I am hopeful of the dominance of good American decency in my everyday experiences.

Post new comment

The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <b> <i>

More information about formatting options